Wednesday, April 18, 2012

Thoughts on 4.0.6 feral glyph selection

In 4.0.3 the glyphs of rip and shred were pretty much required, with berserk, tiger's fury and savage roar being fairly close. Now that bleed damage has been reduced, shred and mangle damage has been increased and ferocious bite is a dps loss above 25% health (leading to shred spam at 5cp) I have been thinking about changes to the optimal glyph selection.

Clearly, the glyph of berserk should pull slightly ahead of the glyph of tiger's fury given the shift from bleed damage (gaming the TF buff to get a long 115% rip is FTW). The question that I am currently trying to answer is whether the glyph of shred is still worth using. Given that I have tons of extra combo points at almost all times, refreshing shred is a non issue. The glyph of shred significantly increases the timing complexity of tiger's fury, since the shred extension has been shown to put a new rip on the target with a duration of the current rip + 2. In order to hit your best possible DPS, you need to try and align your tiger's fury so it is up for the third rip extension. This almost always leads to a slight delay in the use of tiger's fury, separate from energy dumping delays. In addition, this desynchronizes tiger's fury and rip, resulting in sub-optimal 115% rip uptime.

I given the change, I believe that the glyph of savage roar may result in a DPS increase over the glyph of shred. By passing on the glyph of shred, tiger's fury aligns perfectly with both rip and rake, rarely clipping a tick of either, and never clipping more than one tick that I can see. In addition, it greatly simplifies tiger's fury usage, which is nice because it has by far the largest skill cap of any feral ability. In addition, since ferocious bite is out of the finisher rotation, savage roar uptime should increase slightly, improving the value of this glyph even more.

TLDR: The glyph of berserk should now be used in place of the glyph of tiger's fury. The glyph of shred is probably only a significant dps gain with low gear levels, or under very specific conditions with near perfect play. The glyph of savage roar seems like a reasonable replacement. The glyph of rip is still required.
Just running my stats and such through mew berserk was higher than TF for my current load out, but they are very close together. I would just say go with berserk because, unless you are 100% on point and able to hit TF every time right off CD, it will probably be a DPS increase.

EDIT:

I fail at reading. Yes use shred.

Shred + rip + berserk = profit
you are missing the part where the glyph of shred saves you considerable energy and thus damage.

you definitely still want shred and rip.


Doing a little math, based on the latest mew sim...

Over 176 seconds, glyphed shred would result in 8 refreshes of rip. Over the same time period, unglyphed rip would be refreshed approximately 11 times. That means that given rip costs 30 energy, we would lose 90 energy over the course of 176 seconds, or 0.5 energy per second, which, given my current average shred DPE (409.8), is equivalent to about 200 DPS.

With the glyph of savage roar, my white attacks will do an additional 3.33% damage (1.55/1.5). My average white hit is for 2698 damage and occurs every 0.96 seconds, this yields an average dps of 2810. With the glyph of savage roar, this goes up to 2904, a net gain of 96 dps, and a net loss of 114 dps from the glyph of rip if we don't consider any other factors.

If my self buffed dps is 15791, of which rip is approximately 28.8% then rip is doing approximately 4547 dps by itself. I'm not exactly clear how mew is simulating tiger's fury percentage uptime on rip (I don't feel like digging through the code right now), however I will take a guess that it just performs a multiplication of damage based on the calculated uptime, leading to a likely increase on the order of about 3%, resulting in rip providing 4415. Given this, 1% savage roar uptime on rip should provide approximately 0.15% damage increase, or 6.623 DPS/% tiger's fury rip uptime. In order for the glyph of savage roar to be dps neutral, it would have to provide a 17% increase in tiger's fury rip uptime. With unglyphed shred it is very easy have ~50% tiger's fury rip uptime. With glyphed shred it is very easy to overwrite a tiger's fury buffed rip unless you are very careful, and avoiding that typically requires delaying tigers fury by some small amount of time (which is a dps loss by itself) and could result in having to mangle rather than shred if you would energy cap with the KotJ energy boost. Additionally this shoots the skill cap on tiger's fury usage WAY WAY up.

I stand by my argument that the glyph of shred is no longer the optimal choice.
When using Mew, be sure to compare both the calculated results and the simulation.

I actually had more respect for the tool after I did because it showed what I would have expected (yay confirmation bias!).

That is, it calculated that berserk would be better dps than TF, but the simulation showed the opposite result (although it was still fairly close).

Why? Because making sure that you use TF on your Rips (even if that means letting it go unused briefly) is a decision that is difficult (impossible?) to account for in a calc, but you can in a simulation.

Personally, I think the TF glyph actually makes it easier to align Rip with TF since it's more likely to be "close" to coming off cooldown around when you need to reapply Rip.
When using Mew, be sure to compare both the calculated results and the simulation.

I actually had more respect for the tool after I did because it showed what I would have expected (yay confirmation bias!).

That is, it calculated that berserk would be better dps than TF, but the simulation showed the opposite result (although it was still fairly close).

Why? Because making sure that you use TF on your Rips (even if that means letting it go unused briefly) is a decision that is difficult (impossible?) to account for in a calc, but you can in a simulation.

Personally, I think the TF glyph actually makes it easier to align Rip with TF since it's more likely to be "close" to coming off cooldown around when you need to reapply Rip.


Part of the point I'm trying to hammer home is that aligning tiger's fury and rip/rake is automatic if you do not glyph tiger's fury or shred. You get an EZ mode ~50% tigers fury uptime on rip. You will occasionally be clipping a tick of rip, but you can arrange this so that the clipped tick is one without tiger's fury, and by not refreshing before the final tick of the buffed rip you get a nice little DPS boost. This is SO much easier than what you have to do with either glyph (or both). Keeping track of when you can do your third shred after your last rip to align it with tiger's fury is a big brain drain. Even if the whole schebang is DPS neutral, the play style is MUCH easier.
I'm running a simulation right now. It's definitely food for thought.
Tried the alternate glyph selection last night for Nefarian. Overall, priorities were greatly simplified, though I did find that target switching could cause rip/rake and tiger's fury to desynch unless very carefully timed. Additionally, I found that some minor consideration is required as to exactly when to use savage roar, though it wasn't too bad, and I expect my overall damage to increase once everything is completely internalized.

I highly recommend this glyph arrangement on any fight that doesn't involve frequent target switching. On fights where you must switch targets frequently I still believe this glyph arrangement is a net positive, however the difference in required foresight and planning is not as large, and many people have already put enough work into using the glyph of shred to mitigate any potential reduction in complexity.

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